Ulli Steidl runs 6:33 and change, while Geoff capped off his “Runner of the Year” performance throwing down a 6:40. Both these times are faster than last year, but let’s remember it was a slightly different route.
More to come from me, but follow Irunfar.com and click on his twitter feed for the best up to date info for now.
That must have been one epic battle! Sounds like those two distanced themselves quite a ways from the rest of the field. Would love to see any video clips, if any, surface from this one. I can envision the documentary title…”Duel In Marin”
Yah, sick race!
Karl- Bighorn 100 —- Geoff- Bear 100: 0 points
Karl- Hardrock100 —- Geoff HURT 100: 0 points
Karl- Wasatch 100— Geoff Wasatch 100: 1 point = Geoff
Karl- Massanutten 100- Geoff MMTR 50: 1 point= Geoff
Karl- Pinhoti 100— Geoff NFC 50: 1 point= Geoff
Karl- Chimera (?)100 — Geoff Miwok 100km: 1 point = Karl
well an impressive year by both and in my mind two of the top ultra runners in USA. Playing Devil’s advocate yet again, above is how I see it unfolded. Not sure how you compare such things. Too arbitrary.
I would also not count out Wardian’s work this year, predominantly the 100km world performance, 50km and a few others. Running States after punishing the body across the country just 7 days earlier at the 100km was an impressive display for whatever it’s worth.
Incredible that Roes was able to bounce back from his record breaking performance at MMTR to run that kind of race. Steidl on the other hand, has not lost a step. Without Carpenter in the race, I don’t think there is anyone that can touch this guy. Mentally, it has to say something when you know you have the physical gifts to bury someone. Wish I could have been there. Wardian is definitely a “freak”.
Part of the problem in getting people behind Ultras could be NF’s total lack of consideration to fans. This race has been built up since May and they offer no coverage prior, during or after. How did the runners do? We know who won but that’s it. These races are chipped timed and results should be available. Maybe I’m impatient but I would like to know how the field unfolded w/o waiting several days. I would like to see pictures, I would like to see some enthusiasm from the fee collecting sponsor. I would love to know why Wardian is a freak, did he place highly?? Is a top 10 too much to ask for?
Sorry to vent on your website but there is no one else covering the race that I can find. I run far reported the winners then went away.
I totally agree with Tim - all the other races that I have watched had updates every few miles and one could follow the race. I also hate to vent on your website but there is no other place to be heard at all. I tried for hours to find something on this race and there was absolutely no coverage. How can there be any interest in a race when you can’t find any coverage on it?? This is such a big race and there would be so much more enthusiasm if there was information while the race was going on or at least after the race. This really stinks and something should be done about it.
I’m puzzled why NF does not have a prize money race for a 100km or 100mile. Particularly 100mile since that distance seems to get more vibe than say a 50mile, which I really don’t understand. I can see why NF who is title sponsor of Western States probably can’t pony of money at that race due to RD conflicts and tradition. Understood I guess. Although if that race did have Prize money from NF, it might be the last missing link to have a full out championship 100mile race. There are so many 100’s out there, which is not a bad thing, but it really dilutes the competition at each race knowing that you’re not always going against the best. Maybe it would good to have like an “Olympics” style where NF alternates the 10,000$ prize in distances. Year 1: 50km champs, year 2: 50mile, year 3: 100km, year 4: 100mile. Then start the order all over again.
I agree Tim. The PR for that race is really sub-par considering how much is put into that whole race series and then the final race in Cali. There just seems to be nothing. Hell, if I did not run a couple ultras or know various websites to look at, I would have no clue that the race even existed.
Yes, Uli is the man, he still can flex that marathon speed and convert it well. I’d like to see him run 100km roads. I bet he would be solid as hell.
Tim, Sharon, and everyone else who wanted to watch the race:
Damn right, the NF really drops the ball when it comes to covering this race. It’s the highest paying race in the US, and we come to a random runners’ site (mine) to try and get results.
With Chip timing it should have been posted right away…during the race, just like we watch splits at Hardrock, WS or wherever. It’s a shame really.
Run Scout has the best map, the flyover was killer and I intend to have that done for the Speedgoat 50k. No more asking what the course looks like. Technology is out there and the NF has the funds to almost put the race live streaming video. It ain’t that hard!
I honestly thing NF hires out an “event company”, takes the entry fees and profits, then lets the organizers have it. I don’t see too much profit here, but they must make some. There are those 3 other races involved with cash as well to make up the difference. Point being if they had an RD like myself who knows what’s going on (most of the time)
they would have much better coverage. There would be a team of specialists making it happen. Oh well, until next year.
Wynn, good observations on UROY, but Geoff has it now, I would have to run 15 hours at Chimera, or even faster to consider myself in the mix to win it. Geoff’s performances were over the top. Although Ulli beat him, it wasn’t by too much, and Geoff beat everyone else out there. Now I can run Chimera backwards and see if I can finish it, we’ll see if that counts for anything!
Yes, Mike Wardian is in the mix, as well as Dave James, Dave slips under the radar too, and his performances were quite good, but not enough to win. Then Mackey, Miwok, Firetrails, and a few other sick times. I think Geoff and I are in the front, but man….it was one hell of a year to say the least….all over the place!
The only thing about Wardian….he runs alot of road or trail marathons that don’t count in the UROY voting. That’s a shame, but that’s how it is. If it did count, he’d be getting alot more votes.
Ulli would kill it at 100k road if he set his mind to it, but isn’t he german? The silly USATF wouldn’t let him break an american record, he’d have to pay his 20 bucks and have a fake ID!
No worries venting about pathetic NF coverage on this site, like you said, where else can you do it!
I’m gonna go and check results now, and if they are not up, I’m gonna go shovel some snow…cuz’ it’s finally snowing at Alta.
I’m back, and yah, the coverage here is about as good as the North Face shoe selection…..weak! Just my two cents
Results:
http://www.sportstats.ca/display-results.php?lang=eng&racecode=44563
Top 10:
ULI STEIDL 6:33:30
GEOFF ROES 6:40:51
CHRIS LUNDSTROM 6:48:08
TSUYOSHI KABURAKI 6:55:52
MICHAEL WARDIAN 7:09:07
LEIGH SCHMITT 7:09:44
MIKE WOLFE 7:14:26
CHIKARA OMINE 7:22:44
JOE GRANT 7:24:38
DAVE MACKEY 7:27:53
That Miwok performance by Mackey was 2008, but that just goes to show you how great that was when we totally forget the 2009 winner (Grossman):-)
Hearing about the snow gives me such a craving for the slopes!
Results up: http://www.sportstats.ca/display-results.php?lang=eng&racecode=44563
Agreed, difficult to put on a memorable event when the event management company is a seemingly sterile entity out of TX that probably organizes everything from running races to kids’ roller skating parties. There’s absolutely a difference between that and events like WS, Firetrails, Bull Run Run, etc. where it’s obvious the organizers take a personal stake into them and care very deeply about the details that make them, well, memorable. I don’t think NF should take too much of the blame for the somewhat callous promotion and coverage of the event; they seem to simply be the glorified sponsor of it.
as a race director, I would presume that NF race is done by a timing company. You’d think for how much effort and resources they put in the race that they would have live web coverage and/or quick results. Strange that a timing company would not have immediate results. I do manual results and I have them up that same evening. It just seems like the right thing to do.
Karl- you were very close, but Geoff’s NFC I think is the clincher. Uli showed his marathon speed and his ultra marathon patience and fueling more than likely. Probably did what he had to do to conserve as much energy as possible and then dropped it the last 10miles or so. Usually the way something like that works with a speedster like that.
James and Koerner had solid years as well. Although I would give the nod to Koerner. WS counts for a lot more than Umstead. Plus, James bonked at a few 100’s (states and tahoe i think). Although i’m partial to road racing, so i have to give him props for the solid 100 mile split at the 24hr even though he bonked. I like how Parr flexed is range with leadville and then a month later run a low 31 at Cow Harbor 10km. Solid. Shows me he is competitive beyond just an ultra distance and still holding his own.
Indeed some fast times this year. I think this has to do with more competitive runners, younger runners, better training, etc.. the only thing it’s really lacking is what I was getting at in the previous post, which may have been looked at by others to be out of context and that is deeper competitive fields in ultras. I think we are getting there. It’s going to take longer, but we’re in the right direction. Maybe I’m just too hard on myself, but I think what attracts me to say running a fast marathon is the fact that I can go say to maybe even a 3rd tier marathon like Green Bay, or 2nd tier like Grandmas and Twin Cities with out having to fork over tons of money for travel, lodging, food, rental car, etc… and still run against a deep field of competition and regularly against some of the country’s best. To me that is more rewarding than running a run of the mill ultra, winning, but no competition. Hopefully there will be a day where you can go to your local 50km, 50mile or 100mile and know that you are running against a deep field. For instance go to your local 50km and know that there are another 15 runners that can go sub 3:15. That would really make ultras even that much better. I think there has been an effort with USATF races, montrail cup, NFC, but it still has yet to really take effect. I just think that the competitive field is not deep enough yet in a large capacity.
Wynn, when I was out today, you did forget one thing.. I ran the Grindstone 100 also on Oct 4, won that one by a couple hours, set a CR. Although, it is only the second year in existence. But from my personal view, It was a fast time, but a little room for improvement as I tend to lollygag once I have an hour or more lead. Pinhoti is the same deal, fast time, but room for improvement. Without someone on my tail, it’s hard to red line. Only at Wasatch did I really red line the hardest. Not even Hardrock was I going top speed…
But don’t get me wrong here, Geoff has UROY packaged up and is on his way back to Alaska with it.
oh yeah, damn i forgot that one. shit. well that makes that changes things a little bit.
Karl- Grindstone 100 — Geoff ITI = Karl: 1 point
Geof 3 points, Karl 2 points.
A caveat, Geof bonked at ITI, and similar to a race we have up here, which is the Arrowhead 135… in my view and only my view without pissing people off, I would classify that more as an adventure race. I just feel like if you are pulling sled with gear and forced to power-walk that just draws a different line for me.
Why not coUROY?
Meltzer: Wins @ MMT,BigHorn,HR,Grindstone,Pinhoti, 2nd @ Wasatch, Chimera TBD
Roes: Wins @ Hurt,Wasatch,Bear,MMTR50, 2nd @ NF50, DNF @ MiWok
If Meltzer wins Chimera and sets another CR, that would be 4 CRs for each runner. That would also mean 6 100 wins for Karl. Can’t be overlooked.
Nod to Meltzer for UROY!
Thanks for the love Craig! I feel pretty good for Chimera, but the thing is to always respect the distance.
We have at least Ray Sanchez in the race. He ran 16:56 ish at the Run in the Hood 100, so I won’t be overlooking him. I know for sure I have some heels to follow. I am sure there are a few others that on a good day can hang. So we’ll see.
Since we’re on the subject a bit for UROY, my other two races were Way Too Cool, finished 20th….calf tweaked at mile 27ish. I was running with Scott Jaime, who ended up 5th. I would have been aronund there. But still, can’t throw it out. Also Moab Red Hot 50k, I finished 3rd, behind only Dave Mackey and Timmy Parr, so that run was pretty solid too. I pr’d by 12+ minutes. It’s got to count for 1/4 point at least!
I don’t consider Geoff’s 300+ mile DNF in Alaska even on the results list. It is totally different like the Arrowhead 135. If you’re towing a sled, it’s no running race….still a great adventure, but not a running race.
It’s Chimera’s first year, so the winner gets the CR, that’s not fair!
I’ll have to say, I think Geoff and I should have a party while watching the votes come from the booth, one at a time…..everyone’s invited…..then we’ll all go run!
I had to search long and hard to find the NF 50 mile race results. I finally found it here. It is a bit pathetic how I can’t find the results of the biggest race in ultrarunning. Thanks for the details, Karl and all who responded to this post.
Interesting discussion…as always.
Not that it really is a point with the voting, but I don’t agree with the pulling a sled (pulk) not being a ‘running race’ though. Dave Mackey seemed to run pretty well at the first year of Rock and Ice Ultra and I expect that Goeff ran pretty hard at ITI as well (btw, wasn’t it a knee injury that forced Roes to DNF… not bonking?). I don’t think it’s much different than having to power walk or run slow up a mountain as comparison. In reality, the sleds are pretty light, they slow you down but so does the snow.
Just a note about TNF50. I was really surprised that the results weren’t up sooner too as Sportstats is a pretty big timing company from nearby (Ottawa, CAN) and do a very good job. They have timed marathons and ironman events with over 20,000 participants and often offer ‘live’ results. My only guess is that this service costs more and organizers didn’t want to pay. I know Sportstats isn’t cheap and to get them down there must have been pricey to begin with. Maybe the delay had to do with travel or was just a glitch.
Hey guys, I thought I’d offer a few bits of information from race weekend.
Sorry to those folks who couldn’t get any coverage on race day. I was reporting some results via Twitter @iRunFar. Unfortunately, I didn’t know that would be the case until Friday as I had planned on running the race.
As for other race coverage, there are some logistical problems. Re finish line data - the finish is in front of a hostel in a National Park Service administered area. I’m not sure that the hostel has more than one phone line and if that’s the case, I can’t see them giving it out. There’s no cell service for a bunch of companies at the finish area, so not all cell modems would work… though it would be possible to find the one company that works and use it. One could argue that a sat phone could be used.. but that’s a bit over the top. Maybe a hamm radio team could set something up to relay info, but that would be an interesting sell given that it is put on by a race management company.
As for race course updates… I found a way, but it was not easy. Definitely no phone lines. Cell service was very spotty. It’s an urban area, but the Headlands have crazy valleys and there don’t appear to be any cell towers in the NPS-administered areas.
Sorry some of you missed on what was one.. make that two of the most excited ultra races I’ve seen in a long time. The Stiedl v. Roes showdown being the best I’ve ever seen. Now that I’m home, I’ve got to clean Ulli’s puke of my clothes. Such are the dangers of reporting from ultras.
This is a chime in from a friend of Geoff’s in AK. I’ve been running with Geoff(trying to keep up) on a somewhat regular basis for the last couple years. It has been incredible to watch him train here on these rocky, muddy, rooty etc. trails and then go ‘down south’ and do so well.
In the debate of UROY I would add in his Crow Pass run in AK this year in which he set a course record, something we in Juneau are starting to almost expect everytime he enters a race. While an AK local race doesn’t mean much to those outside, it does demonstrate his dominance on many levels.
Crow Pass is a 25 mile single track through Chugach State Park and includes a significant river crossing. It’s been running for 25+ years and seem some very strong runners come through the finish. I suppose this isn’t a true ultra by distance but nonetheless it should be a side consideration and shows Geoff can throw down at any distance. 25 mile CR, 50 mile CR(1.5?), 100 mile CR(3).
Karl’s run of 100 milers is no doubt incredible, but I vote for the range of distances for Geoff’s CR’s in 09. The ITI is in another arena I think. A 350+ multi-day self supported winter ‘run’ is in a league of its own.
Thanks to Bryon for the twitter. We were hanging on your twitter feed all morning in AK.
Point in fact: The ITI (Geoff Roes) is a 350mile multi day running race (and biking and skiing) in the deepest, coldest,no roads anywhere nearby, must-care-for-yourself-in-the-middle-of-Alaska-winter race. Ultras are HARD but this is off the charts. Multi-day (like a week long!), NO ‘aid’ stations. Can’t say it is comparable to a 135mile race. WAY more.
And yes, Roes had injuries…not bonking.
Just sayin’.
Good point Bryon. I was wondering about the reception there, but since I don’t know the area, had no clue.
It was great getting your Twitter updates….while watching the WS100 lottery.
Craig- I’m a big proponent of races with deep competition, so although Karl has an impressive 6, Geoff’s MMTR and NFC are better performances than say Pinhoti or Chimera. It has nothing to do with the runner, or the distance, it’s the depth of field. In fact I would count Karl’s moab run higher than whatever pans out at Chimera, unless the comp gets deeper. Regardless even if Karl wins, he should pick up a point, making it the votes closer. Has it ever been confirmed who the voters are? I don’t think names are relevant, but I do think people, especially the runners should have an idea of a title (runners, Race directors,??) who are these people. Is it under lock and key? Now that complete strangers can get into the white house, I think it’s safe to reveal a title of who the voters are, only out of curiosity and no other reason.
One performance that should not go unnoticed happened very early in 2009 and that was Josh Cox’s 2:47:17 50km American road record. He beat Alex Tilson’s and previous Barney Klecker’s low 2:50’s. He also did it with gut rot the last few miles. I know 50km really is not an ultra distance, but I suppose if it is technically labeled over a marathon than it is. Furthermore, how often do you see American and world records set…. rarely, not since the early and mid 80’s when you had marathon speedsters coming off of fast marathons and running the few ultras that were out there such as Ice Age 50m, Chicago Lakefront 50, etc.. Anyways, an American record should account for something. Now just imagine what Hall, Bekele, Torres, Ritz, Hartman, and the list goes on could do to that 50km. That would be sweet to see. I hope at some point Bekele attempts a marathon. I think he has the ability to set the new WR. He’s the greatest distance runner the world has ever seen, right alongside if not atop Haille.
bottom line is that whoever the hell votes for this thing, it should not be a runaway between Roes and Karl. It will be close.
Wynn - I agree 100%, competition is good. It brings at most times the best/worst out in some of these top athletes. It truly goes to say, “Who will crack first”. I don’t however think that every race a Meltzer, Roes, Mackey, Krupicka, Koerner, etc. runs should have to have deep, deep competition. Especially at the rate, say Karl Meltzer runs 100M races. I mean, Karl is an anomoly as far as I’m concerned. There aren’t many guys at the top who would even consider doing what he does. Most like the 100M distance, but don’t love it like Karl does.
Josh Cox: Is there not some debate as to whether his 50K record is legit. Yes, I know he set the record, but not like he had any competition since the last 7-8k was run at the end of a marathon race. It is what it is I guess.
Alot of debate as to whether these extremely fast 5,000/10,000/Marathon runners would even consider transferring over to ultra distances. For one, there is no money in it. Why would a Hall, Ritz, Bekele do this when they can go out and train for a top marathon like Chicago, NY, Boston and win $100,000. That pays the bills and gets way more press.
I like to see records broken just like anyone else. It sparks excitement in the sport. I don’t however want the sport of ultrarunning to get out of control where the sponsors and media take over. As you can see, a company like North Face can’t even get their act together when sponsoring a set of races.
Bryan, yah, the Crow Pass run was stellar by Geoff, but infortunately, it doesn’t count in the voting. I also ran a tough marathon here in Salt Lake, broke my own previous record. It was also a fast marathon. But as noted, I didn’t put that in my results. It is what it is on that one.
Wynn, who knows who the voters are? It’s Ultrarunning mag, that’s all I know, but when we see the final tallies, there’s 100s of votes…who knows? contact John Medinger, maybe he’ll know.
Josh Cox: yah, kind of a wierd scenario, tacking on five miles at the end of a marathon? Seems a little odd to have an american record at a race that was NOT a 50k race, but simply and addition to. Don’t get me wrong, another stellar performance. And Alex Tilson, didn’t he set that up with a few other runners to make it official. Ultrarunning is very odd.
Craig: “Karl is an anomoly as far as I’m concerned” I had to laugh again. I run what I like, not necessarily what others expect of me. That’s what I like most. Many people would love to see me at Western, but I can’t even get in to the race….unless of course I get lucky at a lottery.
I am definately a specialist at 100s, I chose this route about 5 years ago when I realized I would stick to my strength. I’m not the fastest 100 mile runner. No way, but the consistency factor has me dumbfounded sometimes.
I’ve also noticed that a few have almost given me the win at Chimera already. Let’s remember folks. It’s 100 miles…even I respect the distance. It’s hard, it’s far and I’m going in blind………which is what I like most. Not knowing what’s around the next corner is cool. I haven’t even looked at the topo yet, or how to get there. I’m gonna throw some gel on my pack and go. We’ll see what happens. I will say though….”100 miles is not that far”
Craig- I agree sponsors can be annoying, but the bottom line is, that they help attract better competition to some degree. I mean who bother running the NFC in Cali if 10,000$ were not on the line with northface logos everywhere. Sponsors whether you like them or not can attract more competition, which is good. I mean after all it is a RACE. Besides, once you’re out on the course that part does not change. If RD’s did not have the help of sponsors you would be lucky to find a race to run in at all. We don’t have to believe or even like sponsors, me being one of them, but I respect the fact they help make races function. Hell, all you need to do is open up one of those shiny factoid Runners World or Trail Runner magz to find a plethora of ads/sponsors. All that’s missing from those magz are fragrant inserts. i saved my self subscription fees from those things, by simply realizing.. run lots of miles. I will agree with you though that NFC still needs work out some kinks. oh well.
I would say that depth of field definitely makes particular wins stand out. At the same time though doesn’t a CR or near CR stack a runner up with the depth of field from the entire history of an event? It seems a CR for a young event doesn’t hold as much weight as a CR for something thats been run for 15-20 years or more (i.e. Hardrock, MMTR).
Wynn - I agree. We do need sponsors or it is safe to say that the majority of all races would not happen. Now that Koerner is aboard with NF, maybe he can change some of the culture there.
We are getting way off topic here, but now that you got me started. Why not. I will continue to build Karl up only because of his “longevity” in the sport. No Karl you aren’t old, just getting faster. To continue to come back on a year in, year out basis and push the limits, while setting CRs has to say something as well. I mean, everyone trains different (example: Anton Krupicka / Has won and run some stellar races, but for some reason can’t seem to stay healthy enough to run a full year (I’m not speaking for him either)). And what happened to Kyle Skaggs? Seems like he fell off the planet. You out there Kyle? I’m just saying that I’d rather have longevity in this sport of ultrarunning versus one hit wonders who come and maybe break a CR and then disappear.
Amen Craig. I guess there is something to be said for someone who’s won 4 100s in each of the last 5 years. (with the exception of the Appalachian Trail year that’s different)
It’s been a long time since I’ve been injured and couldn’t complete a season….knock on wood…. I think it comes from really knowing when to say when. I know I race alot of 100s, but in between, I’m lucky to have one 60 mile week before the next one arrives.
We’ve been way off the topic for about a week now, so what the hell right?
Carpenter, although in a different realm of trail running, certainly has shown longevity in sport. He’s not necessarily faster than he was in the 90’s, but that’s cuz’ he was so fast, it’s simply impossible to run what he used to run at Pikes. I’m talking his 3:16, he still runs it in 3:35 ish and crushed everyone at age 44.
Kyle is out there, he’s just taking a break. He’s only 25 years old, I didn’t run my first ultra till I was 30. He’ll be back. And Anton will, one of these years, put a full season together, so we can label it “Roes-esque”
Just a matter of time.
I believe Steidl’s NF win should receive performance of the year. Geoff even mentioned that as well in his race report. That’s humility if you ask me, especially after the performances Geoff laid down. The depth of field in this event is what raises it a notch above the rest. This, of course, doesn’t mean diddley since I’m not one of the mystery voters:-)
Oh, by the way…just trying to steer us back on topic…hehehe
Geez, this reminds me of highschool girls campaigning to be prom queen.
Keep runnin, y’all.
Yes, the NFC race is the kind or race and competition ultras need more of. Imagine if every race we entered had that kind of competition. that would definitely change the way you see people race, results, etc. I would love to have a plethora of very competitive races like this. Now if only there were more throughout the country so they happened more regularly and/or you did not have to fork over a king’s ransom to get there.
Craig, I agree, Karl is the man when it comes to 100’s. He has shown consistency and longevity. I would like to point out though, and this is not directed toward Karl, but even though longevity and consistency are key elements toward success and domination.. it also does not rule out runners who may have not run a ton of ultras but ran great ones. For instance Howard Nippert, Barney Klecker, Stue Mittleman, Kevin Setnes, Andy Jones. When they run for the most part it’s typically for nothing less than an American or World Record, or something bodacious. I’m reminded of the great Olympic Champion Lasse Virnen who really only “RACED” 4(ish) races, which were all Olympic races in which he won all of them. The other races leading up he regularly got beat. I suppose they were not ditch weed races, as there was obviously good comp, but what mattered was the big show, and he delivered. He did not race much, but in my mind he is still every bit of a champion and reflection of longevity even if he did not race all the time. However you go about doing it is cool, so, whatever works I guess. Just so long one does not start making fat and sloppy comebacks like George Foreman.
Ulli’s run certainly is in the mix for “performance of the year”. Not only the stellar time, but of course the field that he beat.
Longevity………..I’d be more honored to win “ultrarunner of the DECADE” than “Ultrarunner of the Year”. None of it really means anything, but to me, personally it would be huge. And that is what ultrarunning really is. Personal challenges, cuz the winner may get a cool trophy, but everyone gets the buckle.
Only one guy in ultrarunning for runner of the decade comes to my mind. And that’s Scott Jurek. 7 Western wins in a row was big too. But I still think I have him beat!
Eric, The drama continues!
One hell of a thread, I’ll have to say that!
First: Happy Birthday Karl!
Second: It’s a lengthy discussion, which somehow omitted: Caitlin ran away from the Women’s field. Hello? Super good person, super runner.
Let us not forget about Anton’s record-breaking performance at White River. And one more thing-Whose course record did he break again?
Caitlin’s race was certainly impressive. Would have been even more so had Semick & Beck been in the mix
Wynn - if someone wants to prove their mettle winning anyone of the major Ultras would be a very admirable and difficult feat. If that’s not good enough, there is always competition at the Barr Trail Race & the PPM. These Ultra runners train hard, run hard and if it plays out, race hard. I don’t think the goal is to build a better mousetrap but to enjoy what is and to stay somewhat grounded and humble. Mousetraps are for the rat race that trail running lets one escape from.
Happy Birthday Karl, 90 in Goat years??
Yah, 90 in goat years, something like that!
This whole thread has been pretty random. We’ll see what happens on the next one. The women’s race to win wasn’t nearly as exciting. Caitlin’s time was stellar, but she was out front and in control all day. Geoff and Ulli ran together until someone finally made a “move”.
Buzz, yah, Caitlin….we seem to have been talking about the boy’s race. Caitlin did run away, freakin’ fast, she would have chicked me again.
Big G, yah, Anton is definately on the “performance” of the year list with the WR performance, ( it was awesome, and having run that race on my own, I very much respect how fast he ran) but runner of the year…no.
I totally missed Chris Lundstrom when I looked on the original list. Chris has run a 61 minute 20k and a 2:17 marathon and was a huge name on the local scene that I heard about a lot while running in Minnesota in high school. He’s right about where Uli is at for speed, so I’m really impressed that Uli beat him by 15 minutes at NF. Even with more trail experience, that’s a huge amount of time, so major kudos to Uli and Geoff.
tell me about it Tim, I hear ya man. I run lots of miles and lots of different distances including ultras. I just like to hear various viewpoints. I’m a teacher, so I like playing devil’s advocate. I agree with all your points. My point is that I hope to see more deep competition at more races in the ultra distances, like one could experience depth in many marathon and sub-marathon; not only because it would be competitively rich for a variety of reasons (i.e. wasatch and hardrock the last 5 years), but also it would increase the range in which they can be participated in; without having to drop a 2nd mortgage to get out to participate in many of these races on a regular basis, rather than just one.
-You can be humble and still compete at a high level obviously. I’m humbled every day with some of the guys I train with. You really begin to realize how good you’re really not. I mean was it not just a few months ago that a bunch of folks were squealing about how we wanted a deep competitive ultra 100mile, free comp, and the whole shebang. I think that would be great. I agree, the cool thing about ultras is that they are for the most part laid back, humble, candid. Trust me I know and I love it, but it’s still a race for heavens sake. I doubt Karl went out to Massanutten to tip-toe through the tulips and smell the roses. I mean lets call a spade a spade once in awhile. When I go to a restaurant I go to order food, not stare at a menu and leave. Everyone has different goals for a race, we all know this, and there is room for everyone. Amidst the dusty trail though it’s still a RACE. lets not get all soft.
Time to hit the bunker and wait for the grenades. Ha!
Maybe a brief break from the high mileage has led to my massive posting. My apologies if anyone was offended. All points were all valid. To each his own. The last thing we need is for Karl’s sweet site to wreak of “lets run (esque).com” vernacular.
Oh yeah,- Karl- i say you keep racking up the 100’s. You’re obviously showing no signs of slowing. That AT quest can wait. You can do that kind of stuff successfully even in your 50’s. Hell look at what Horton accomplished. Ya gotta get while the getting is good, and you’re still good at 100s!!
Interesting to read what lots of you have to say about TNF race and related topics. Some of you were a little off with how the race unfolded. There was no speeding up in the last 10 miles; it was a who slows down the least.
Anyway, some of you might be interested in my race report:
http://ulisteidl.blogspot.com/2009/12/2009-north-face-endurance-challenge-50.html
And sorry Karl, I don’t follow the 100 miler scene too closely and I wasn’t aware of how many you had won when I wrote that Geoff should be the runaway winner of the UR of the year award. I’d still give him the nod, though. I think his time this year at TNF was about equivalent to what Matt ran last year when he set the CR…
Chris- Lundstrom is a super solid runner. He has been a part of Team Minnesota USA for a number of years. Twin Citis/Duluth, one of the best road running and trail cities in the country. This year Chris branched out and tried some other things like NFC and Superior 50km in the spring. NFC was his first 50, so that was impressive, especially for a flat lander road runner. He’s raced really hard this year with a couple marathons, including a trials qualifying run. One of the best battles I saw him run was the Brian Kraft 5km this spring in Minneapolis and was edged out by just a second by Jeremy Polson in (14:42). Nice time considering he ran Superior 50km the weekend before.
this is one of my favorite videos from last year in town in training for Twin Cities. Unfortunately the race weather that year was just awful. Enjoy the video:
http://www.flotrack.org/videos/coverage/view_video/234127-workout-wednesday-season-2/75380-team-usa-minnesota-workout-episode-4
I’m guessing Lundstrom has put some miles on those Marin trails. He ran for Hoy’s Excelsior for a number of years prior to moving the midwest. I’m sure he’ll get faster with more ultra experience, but If if he didn’t run in Marin while he was in San Fran, I don’t think trail experience plays much of a role on those trails. There are roads in Boston rougher than most of that terrain! I would bet that his quads had a hard time dealing with the runnable downhills, particularly late in the race.
Ulli, yah you are right, it’s about who slows down the least! It was fun for us mortals to sit back and watch…with what coverage we had. You are the man though, I knew I picked the right guy to win it.
Geoff didn’t run away with UROY, but he’s got it. I also specialize more than he does too. I would not even be close to you two at NF, or anywhere else for that matter. Geoff’s performances were over the top.
Uli — wish I could have stuck with you for longer. You ran an incredible race, especially considering the puking.
Everyone — I felt great on the climbs, but those downhills did get to me, especially the section from 30 to wherever. Lots of stumbing and cursing under my breath. Uli and Geoff really put the hammer down there, and I never saw them again. At one point I took a wrong turn and was sure that a steady stream of runners would be passing me shortly. The next time gap I heard was 7 minutes. Ouch.
Once things flattened out for a stretch, I pulled it back together a little bit, but at that point I was just trying to finish it up respectably. I really enjoyed the climb out of Tennessee Valley, mainly because I was familiar with it and knew that the end was near.
I did a lot of running in the Headlands when I lived in SF, but not much on the trails further north. I was definitely stronger on the fire roads than on the trails, though I guess climbing was fine either way. My quads were (and still are!) pretty wrecked from the downhills. I got some good advice from other Minnesota trail guys regarding how to train in the flatlands for such a hilly run. However, I didn’t have much chance to actually do the training as I was focused on the marathon this fall, and took a couple of weeks off after a disastrous run at NYC.
On the whole, it was a good experience. I really enjoy the strategic aspects of racing, and a hilly 50 miler definitely has strategic challenges in abundance. 100 milers I’m sure take that to a whole other level, which I will continue to vicariously experience through the tales of others…
As for the above discussions of ultrarunner of the year, sponsorship, etc., I’m not really the expert but for what it’s worth…I tend to look for quality rather than quantity, but then again it seems to me that if anything is about quantity, it’s ultrarunning.
Prize money, sponsorship, and professionalism certainly change a lot of things. I’ll say this…I told one of the kids I coach that I won $1,000 for running this 50 mile race.
He said, “That’s a great way to make money.”
I said, “No it’s not. It’s about the worst way to make money I can imagine. Stay in school.”
I think that’s Kenenisa Bekele looking casual with Uli in the pic on his blog. Sub-13 5Ks and not even looking like he’s breathing hard. He has to be a huge star where track is a big deal.
I think it stinks that Karl seems to be getting short-changed on all this UROY talk. I mean, everyone is handing Geoff the award mainly based on his amazing 50 mile performances. Yes, people are giving him love about HURT, Wasatch, Bear, but it’s really his MMTR50 and NF50 (both in the 6:30 range?) that has everyone conceding it to him. But quantity should count for something in ultras, and Karl’s six(6) 100 wins (if Chimera goes well) should count for something huge, whether or not comp was a factor, etc. I say make two awards, “UROY” and “100 mile runner of the year”, because I think it’s silly that people don’t respect the distance involved when counting up races to compare. My two cents, worth $10,000!
Karl no doubt had a UROY kind of year and # of races should be one factor in the consideration. But I believe Geoff won both their head to head battles and this should also be a heavy consideration, not to mention all the other ultras Geoff won…most in CR fashion. I think it would be awesome to see co-UROY. Or, let’s just have them to a tie-breaker 100 miler that begins in the early hours of New Year’s Eve, thus insuring a 2009 finish! Any suggestions on location?
Nice Trail Clown! Hey, I won 5 100s a few years back and still didn’t get UROY, so why not 6 this time eh?
But, Chimera is not over yet. Don’t count it till it’s over. Cuz’ 100 miles is far….”but not that far”.
I still like the UROD “D” for decade.
For the New Year’s Eve “run=off” for UROY, I would suggest starting at the Northenmost terminus of he AT and ending 100 miles later. Then Karl and Geoff could have a beer, tip their hats and Karl would continue SB, eventually setting the thru speed record. He also could be recovered by Spring to start cranking out 100’s. Who da man?
Great idea Tim! That really would give Karl a fast start for the speed record…he could practically cruise the rest of the way, stop while and smell the flowers.
If the ferryman in ME is hesistant to cross the river, Karl has his moose connections on whose back he can cross. Also, I figure the tailwind off of Mount Washington should be helpful, maybe land him in Rutland. I’m not sure about the flowers.
I don’t think starting fast on the AT is a good idea.
“The rabbit rarely wins”, and in Maine it’s even impossible to move like a rabbit.
There are NO trails out west comparable to Maine, Not Hardrock, Not Zane Grey, Not Speedgoat 50k, nothing. If you haven’t been there, you don’t understand.
They marked the trail by bushwacking through swamps and super rugged mountains….then people started walking to pack it out. They didn’t build anything there, all you have to do is hike a few miles in the Chairback range, or Mahoosucs. It’s unbelievable….and it’s still calling me to return!
I train (stumble)on a few sections of the AT, mainly in the Bear Mt/Harriman Park, NY. I dilligently followed the whereskarl attempt 2 summers ago. To traverse the entire trail in record time in almost inconceivable. I know that ME & NH are far tougher than the tough sections I’ve seen. I agree that it is unbelievable and hope it keeps calling. The time standing is daunting but your abilities allow you the possibility of topping it! Its August 2010, Where’s Karl?